I agree a womyn's center is something that every university campus needs. The important issue is that the center is active in educating on and defending womyn's rights on campus as well as providing a safe and positive environment for womyn. I too believe that we continue to live in a patriarchal society that profits off of the objectification and dehumanization of the female form. Unfortunatley this adds to a chilly climate were women are abused and harassed sexaully, physically and emotionally. Keep up the good fight and be vocal about your rights. Only if womyn are loud and do not succumb to violations of our human rights will we create a positive society to live.

regards from a Sister in the struggle, Tanya

There are many reasons that we need a women's centre that have nothing to do with the fact that other universities have one.

Most of the vocal feminists on campus base their arguments on that fact.

The fact that this article was published speaks very clearly to the need for a women's centre. It presents a very limited and misguided ideal about what feminism should be,

Don't confuse a feminist's centre with a women's centre.

and does not recognize that there is a lot of sexism on campus that needs to be addressed.

How does a women's centre which excludes men help the alleged sexism on the part of men?

These are not petty details.

That statement is correct, in that very few of those arguing for a women's centre have provided details.

Sexism is a form of oppression, and in a society where all people are supposed to be treated equally, this should not be acceptable.

Your argument is flawed. Having a centre does not equate with equal treatment. There's a Native students centre on campus, yet native students are not treated fairly by all.

It is interesting that finances were addressed considering that in reality women on average make 73 cents to the male dollar.

It would be more interesting if you made a point with that fact, for example, what wages have to do with a womens centre, or the mechanism by which a womens centre would help increase wages.

We still live in a patriarchal society, where systemic oppression of women is widespread.

How does a womens centre fix this?

The fact that the President of the Students' Union and the majority of students are female does not indicate that women are not oppressed on campus.

The fact that this verbatim argument keeps getting copied and pasted as though it were germane to the argument for a women's centre does not indicate an ability of supporters to think on their own.

A campus women's centre is necessary to address the many issues that women face,

What is the mechanism by which such a centre would do this, especially if it is to be free of men?!

and to provide a space where women are not ostracized or oppressed.

You mean, not ostracized or oppressed on the basis of gender. There are many other reasons and ways to ostracize or oppress people, as some women's centres supporters have shown in these very discussions in the last week. Should we have a "victims of having an unpopular opinions centre" as well?

Perhaps some research on a subject is necessary before an attempt to write about it.

Indeed. Research that goes beyond copying and pasting from a mailing list, perhaps?

I demand you remove Zha's rant against the womyns' center now. Womyn deserve to have a place of their own because we are unequal, and his response is exactly what I expect a man to say.

maybe the reason people don't want a women's centre on campus is because they are too afraid to admit to their own patriarchal ignorance towards women's issues...and this ignorance is one of the true reasons women need a support centre on campus! get with the times calgary and start battling patriarchy from within. the rest of canada, including our prime minister, agrees that women have earned the right to safe places. And obviously, by the sounds of other student's reactions, uofc is in desperate need of one!

No, comments against a potential women's centre will not be removed unless they impede our ability to provide the forums (libel, etc.). I don't particularly care that you think a particular comment helps or hinders a particular side; strong arguments will prevail as they should.

-Ben

Okay, first of all, what the hell does "womyn" mean? Is this some new, iconoclastic way of spelling "women" that boldly flaunts the patricarchal status quo by taking removing the sub-word "men"? Please!

Here's a tip - for "womyn" and "myn" alike - if you want to be taken seriously, learn to spell.

Second, and more relevant, I agree completely with Zha and I applaud his bold statement. Problems of discrimination aren't solved by adding useless layers of bureaucracy, which is tantamount to burning money. The only result of creating a women's centre on campus would be to placate the kind of easily-led automatons who look for quick-fix solutions to their problems.

Parties interested in initiating change on campus would be much better off demanding public discussion of their issues, facilitated by student organizations that aren't inherently discriminatory such as the Students' Union.

An interesting corollary - last year's CRO for the SU General Election stiffly admonished that organization for their treatment of women. Did this news make waves? Hardly! The meeting of the SLC at which these criticisms were doled out was attended by so few representatives that quorum was only barely satisfied.

Note: I tried to find a link to the above-mentioned report, which is supposedly "available" on the SU website, but I gave up after several minutes of fruitless searching. If you're curious to read it, I suggest that you harass one of your your elected officials.

Our story about the report Mr. Boyle refers to is at:
http://gauntlet.ucalgary.ca/story/9291

I'm a member of a visible minorty and a lady. That makes me ripe for persecution, right?

That's exactly what happened this week. I walked through Mac Hall with my classmates, when a supporter of the women's centre asked me to sign a letter/pitetion to support a women's center. I declined because I didn't care either way and tried to walk away. The supporter started verbally harassing me, invokeing my race and what she incorectly thought was my religion. My friends convinced me to let this go, and I did. It happened to me again later the same day when I again declined to support their centre but I didn't have my friends there and the women's center supporters called me a misogynist and all sorts of things implying I was a man. That was the most threatened I have been in my three years at this school.

If they were trying to make me feel intimedated, it worked. I didn't care about a women's center before, but now I do. Being a lady and a minority, I wouldn't feel comfortible if these supporters become the ones to run the centre. They need to learn something about treting people like people, even if they don't support a women's center! It's sad that it's easier to tell the religious people that "No means no!" and they will actually go away than some women who supposely championed women's rights.

this is my reply to zha...

every "a" was the comment that zha responded to.
every "z" is what zha said.
every "m" is what i think.



a.There are many reasons that we need a women's centre that have nothing to do with the fact that other universities have one.

z.Most of the vocal feminists on campus base their arguments on that fact.

m.i imagine that there are more reasons than just that for centre. anyways it's a good point. what does that say about the u of c? progressive or maybe repressive...

a.The fact that this article was published speaks very clearly to the need for a women's centre. It presents a very limited and misguided ideal about what feminism should be,

z.Don't confuse a feminist's centre with a women's centre.

m.to some people there is no difference, to some others there is. i think you have to find out what exactly a feminism is before you can comment.

a.and does not recognize that there is a lot of sexism on campus that needs to be addressed.

z.How does a women's centre which excludes men help the alleged sexism on the part of men?

m.i don't think that any place that want's to enlighten people would be exclusionary. you can't solve sexism with just one sex. also, there is no way that there is only "alleged" sexism.

a.These are not petty details.

z.That statement is correct, in that very few of those arguing for a women's centre have provided details.

m.why don't you try to find the details instead of writing that statement off as a empty comment.

a.Sexism is a form of oppression, and in a society where all people are supposed to be treated equally, this should not be acceptable.

z.Your argument is flawed. Having a centre does not equate with equal treatment. There's a Native students centre on campus, yet native students are not treated fairly by all.

m.if native canadians have a centre and are not treated fairly, why can't women? maybe that native centre helps native canadian students as well as non native students? why can't women have the same privilege?

a.It is interesting that finances were addressed considering that in reality women on average make 73 cents to the male dollar.

z.It would be more interesting if you made a point with that fact, for example, what wages have to do with a womens centre, or the mechanism by which a womens centre would help increase wages.

m. actually i don't agree with that 73 cents on the dollar statistic. i think it's an inaccurate use of statistics. in my opinion, what a person makes has nothing to do with educating students about treating people equally.

a.We still live in a patriarchal society, where systemic oppression of women is widespread.

z.How does a womens centre fix this?

m.that's pretty close-minded.

a.The fact that the President of the Students' Union and the majority of students are female does not indicate that women are not oppressed on campus.

z.The fact that this verbatim argument keeps getting copied and pasted as though it were germane to the argument for a women's centre does not indicate an ability of supporters to think on their own.

m.huh? i'm sure this is not the crux of the argument. i imagine there is more to this issue than just as you say, to "cut and paste". there is not much space for a diatribe here.

a.A campus women's centre is necessary to address the many issues that women face,

z.What is the mechanism by which such a centre would do this, especially if it is to be free of men?!

m.imagine such a centre...i'm guessing it's there to help people. boy what a stretch of the imagination...i don't think that off the cuff remarks like that get to the bottom of the situation.

a.and to provide a space where women are not ostracized or oppressed.

z.You mean, not ostracized or oppressed on the basis of gender. There are many other reasons and ways to ostracize or oppress people, as some women's centres supporters have shown in these very discussions in the last week. Should we have a "victims of having an unpopular opinions centre" as well?

m.or maybe this centre could enlighten all types of people...such as uninformed persons and even radicals, or maybe even you...

a.Perhaps some research on a subject is necessary before an attempt to write about it.

z.Indeed. Research that goes beyond copying and pasting from a mailing list, perhaps?

m.once again an uneducated retort narrow-mindedly bent on creating arguments, rather than solving problems.

m.oh yeah, hey devron when you make a comment like that and not stand behind it, you are just as bad as the person you attack. pretty close-minded. non-productive. something a loser would say.

Please, let's keep the arguments civil and reasonable.

I find it interesting that Gilchrist's position as a female leader in the students union is considered a strength. All anyone remembers of her campaign is the enormous posters of her, featuring a chest-up view. Is it a coincidence that no other candidate paraded their breasts in their campaign? Perhaps...